Questioning Courtship [Part 1]
I first learned about the idea of courtship about 8-9 years ago, I think. I happened to hear Josh Harris on "FamilyLife Today" or "Focus on the Family" one day. His story was so intriguing and compelling. I'm not sure if he used the word "courtship" specifically, but I do remember thinking that his reasoning for "kissing dating goodbye" made sense to me. After all, I had experienced the heartache of break-ups with boyfriends prior to my husband, and I also had SEVERAL regrets of the manner in which I had conducted myself in those relationships. So Josh's story rang true with me, and this whole idea of something OTHER than dating sounded like something I'd want to pursue with my children...someday, since my oldest was no older than 2 at the time. I knew that that could be investigated later and that other things would take priority in the meantime.
Due to other beliefs I held at that time (and do still hold...depends on the belief LOL), I became a part of a few message boards and e-mail groups that held similar beliefs. I'd say that probably 90% of the people in these groups were striving for a courtship model for their children rather than a dating model. Some of the parents had followed a courtship model themselves. So as I've "hung out" (virtually, anyway) with these people for the past 8-9 years, I've learned a lot about how courtship is practiced and why. I've never read any books...as I said, I knew that I had quite some time before I was faced with dealing with this, and in the meantime we needed to potty train, learn how to tie shoes, learn to read, etc. Learning the finer points of courtship would have to wait, but in the meantime I'd just absorb what I could whenever others talked about it.
But recently I've begun to question some of those finer points. Part of it may be the cynic in me...I tend to question a LOT of things.
But part of it I know is because I've seen how courtship has played out in the lives of some people I know...and although I do believe that the courtship model was followed correctly, the results were NOT good. Watching these experiences has really made me question just if this is truly the "biblical way" for two people to meet and marry.
Now, before you tune me out altogether and write me off as "worldly," "liberal," or "unbiblical," hear me out.
I am NOT saying that the typical dating scene is what I want for my children. I'm not saying that it's OK to date around so people can experience different things and different people and different personality types. I'm not saying that purity shouldn't be sought after. What I AM saying, or rather asking, is, is courtship the way it is commonly taught the ONLY way to avoid the pitfalls of the modern dating scene?
Probably one of the first negative stories I heard is from a friend of mine whose parents got to know her future husband before she did. Once he was "approved," they introduced her to him, and to make a long story VERY short, they were married and had some children. He turned out to be a psychopath - I AM NOT EXAGGERATING, I looked up the definition, and he fits it. Have you ever seen Sleeping with the Enemy? If you subtract out the physical abuse and add in spiritual abuse, you have this guy. VERY, VERY SCARY. And yet, since they courted rather than dated, it shouldn't have turned out this way.
Another thing that courtship is supposed to prevent is heartache, since part of the "issue" is that the couple guards their feelings until they are sure that the other one is The One. Another friend of mine began to get to know a guy. I'm not sure if they were "officially" courting, but it was definitely headed that way, and that was the purpose behind them getting to know each other. It turned out that he is a Complete Jerk, as is his father. This girl and those of us on the sidelines watching were so thankful that she was able to find out sooner than later how horrid this guy (and his family) is, BUT my friend was still heartbroken. She had already begun to care for this guy and was excited about the prospect of courting him and possibly marrying him. Perhaps she was "breaking the rules" of courtship by allowing herself to have feelings for him too soon??? I don't know, but still...she was hurt.
I've seen ladies who have extensive lists detailing the qualities they are looking for in a husband, and they (with their parents' full support) refused to even consider a man who did not meet these criteria. (I've heard of men who have similar lists, but since I'm personally acquainted with more ladies than men, that's why I'm using ladies as the example.) These qualities are not things like similar doctrine, gentle, kind, etc. These are qualities like anti-vaccination, pro-homebirth, stating that he will never require her to work outside the home under ANY circumstances, etc. I've heard of parents asking for copies of a checklist from other parents so they can get ideas as they create their own checklist. These checklists are designed to weed out the "unsuitables."
I've heard of a courtship story that goes something like this: I met her father back in such-and-such year, and was so impressed with him. What a man of God! So in blah-blah year I asked his permission to court his daughter.
I've heard of situations in which the couple barely knew each other, but since others (parents, friends, whomever) were convinced that they were right for each other (after praying about it), they agreed to court and marry. And yet they didn't love each other and barely even knew each other. The main things they knew about each other were things they had learned from their friends about how godly and wonderful the other was. And yet I have another friend whose husband is Mr. Perfect when he is around friends and Mr. Controlling Abusive Psychopath when it's just the two of them. So how a person is around people isn't necessarily who he/she truly IS.
So this is what caused the niggling questions to begin. I fully realize that experience doesn't negate the Word of God, nor should we evaluate the Word of God with our experience. However, these experiences caused me to question the courtship movement as it is currently being taught and whether *it* (the courtship movement) holds true to the Word of God.
I was chatting with a friend one day, and we weren't even talking about this, and she asked me if I'd ever heard of Robin Phillips. Apparently his parents have written one of "the" books in the courtship movement. (I've never read it though, since I've never read any of them LOL.) He disagrees with their conclusions and has written a book of his own, which examines the movement and holds its teachings up to Scripture. It's all available online. I printed it, and it took a lot of paper, but it was a good read. Do I agree with all that he wrote? Of course not.
It could use some heavy proofreading too LOL. But he raises some excellent points. In Part 2 I'd like to examine some of those points.

Carla wrote,
Okay, you know that I am in no way, shape or form a die-hard Pearls follower. I have to say, though, that in the conservative world, his perspective is the most balanced I’ve heard regarding courtship (and that, in and of itself, says a lot!). Basically it is the “all kids are different, so don’t develop a formula–take it one kid at a time” method. Works for me.
Have I made any die hard conclusions of my own? Well, yeah a few. My oldest is only 9, so not many
1. My dh and I were alone together too much. I think less time alone time than that is advisable. How ambiguous LOL. Well, since it depends on the kid, ambiguous is good
2. Getting to know each other in the context of a group (whether it is friends or family) is a good thing. Not the only thing, but a good thing.
3. I thought I knew more than my parents but I didn’t. Chances are that my kids (even if it is secretly) will feel the same. I think as parents we will want to be involved in some way.
4. Relationship building will be different for each child (oh, but I already said that
)
I’m looking forward to some of your thoughts.
Link | February 5th, 2007 at 10:03 am
Julie G. wrote,
Well said as always, Keer. Keep the questions coming… Don’t accept anything just because so-and-so said it (whoever that may be). As you know, I have my own doubts these days about many things that are taking root in very conservative Christian circles. Not all it’s cracked up to be at times, is it? Or maybe I’ve just never been that conservative to begin with.
– Julie in Ohio
Link | February 5th, 2007 at 10:12 am
TOTALLY agree, Carla!!!
Robin Phillips has a quote from Mike Pearl in his book, and when I read it I thought, Whoa! How balanced! Was that really something Mike Pearl said? LOLOLOL!!!!!!!
Totally agree with your list as well. I think the main thing that bothers me is the formulaic approach and not taking the individual child into consideration. Let’s face it, some young adults require more supervision than others.
Link | February 5th, 2007 at 10:17 am
OK that should have said:
I think the main thing that bothers me about most courtship models is the formulaic approach.
It sounded like I was saying your list was formulaic. LOL.
Link | February 5th, 2007 at 10:19 am
Molly wrote,
I, too, first heard of courtship and instantly embraced it. But as time has gone on, I am increasingly bothered by what I’m hearing, and by some of the “principles” taught (as godly) that are “precepts taught by men.” I don’t want to base my children’s future marriages on precepts taught by men, personally. Looking forward to your next post!
Link | February 5th, 2007 at 11:34 am
Diana wrote,
As a young Christian lady living at home with non-Christian parents the concept of courting is an interesting one for me. While I agree with some points and have a conviction to reject the worldly dating model going on around me I think my parents would be highly amused and yet thoroughly disinterested in actively participating in the courting process!
As a 23 year old involved in my church’s youth activities and ministries I am seeking to merely get to know the young men that I serve God alongside of on a regular basis. These young men are my Christian brothers after all - I want to learn to love them as my brothers before I even think about dating or courting or anything of this nature.
Link | February 5th, 2007 at 8:51 pm
Diana, you raise another point that sort of throws a wrench into the whole courtship model - what to do with unbelieving parents?
The standard courtship model doesn’t really address what to do if the parents take a “hands off” approach. It assumes that whether their opinions are based on the Word of God or not, that they will still instruct their child what to do and whom to marry. But often, that simply isn’t the case, even if that is what the child would LOVE to have happen.
I asked once on a message board I’m on if it matters if the parents are believers or not - would you still allow your child to marry someone who is a believer but whose parents aren’t? The resounding answer was YES. But honestly from what I’ve seen in real-life examples of courtship, that sort of situation wouldn’t even arise, since the only semi-close contact they have with anyone is with someone whose parents are believers. So I’m stumped how it even could happen.
Meanwhile there are people like you and me, believing children of non-believers, who desire nothing more than to do God’s will when it comes to marriage. The popular courtship model gets rather sticky in situations like that!
Link | February 5th, 2007 at 10:24 pm
Allison wrote,
Just a couple of comments:
I was the friend that Kirsten refers to as having been in a “Sleeping with the Enemy” situation. It was horrible, and something I was graciously saved from. Unfortunately, the effects of that marriage still live on and cause continual difficulty and stress. I did want to say, though, that we didn’t actually use the courtship model. Yes, my parents gave a sort of “approval” before we began talking with each other, but it was not approval for marriage - just their confirmation that he had been deemed a “potential” at that point. As hard as it may be for people who have not been through this to understand, the truth is that we were manipulated and misled by a very, very evil man. People who are intent on getting what they want and have been that way all of their lives will usually succeed. They have perfected the art of appearances and can pass themselves off as anyone they want to be, or that someone else wants them to be. That is what happened to me.
I’m very interested in reading what you have to say about courtship, Kirsten, and I will stop by often. I promise I wasn’t attacking your comment about my situation - I just wanted to clarify it.
Link | February 6th, 2007 at 3:21 pm
THANK YOU for clarifying, Allison!!!!!!!
In a way your situation was “courtship lite” LOL. You still met him through your parents and probably would not have met him had they not approved of him first (had he shown his true self…
).
If you don’t mind answering (and if you do, I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND!!!!!), do you think that you and your parents would have been duped by him had you met him the “normal” (everyone, note the quotes, since I am NOT a fan of the typical “dating scene,” so that is not what I’m referring to) way? Or do you think it was easier to be misled by him due to the way your relationship with him came about?
There is such a wide variety of ways to “define” courtship. Some feel that what you did, Allison, was courtship, since your parents gave the primary approval to get to know each other. Some feel it’s not since they didn’t really give approval for marriage right at the beginning. That’s one of the reasons I included it as an example - it all depends on who is doing the defining.
Link | February 6th, 2007 at 5:08 pm
Jeanne wrote,
Great blog, Keer! Very interesting. I think it’s good to be questioning these things.
Link | February 6th, 2007 at 5:37 pm
Tracy wrote,
I like the idea of courtship, but I’ve also seen (actually heard. lol) a very wide application of it. It’s more of a stricter dating policy than actual courtship. I think that’s what we’re going to try for. As parents I still want to be involved, but I’m not about to hand pick my children’s spouses! I certain wouldn’t have wanted MY parents to! ROFL
Link | February 6th, 2007 at 7:01 pm
Dollymama wrote,
Bring. It. On. Keer!
This is a conversation that needs to be had again and again until people realize that there is no perfect way to arrange marriages.
Yes, there are things we can do to minimize some problems, but a formula approach is never going to be the answer.
I read a book about courtship last year and thought it was some of the most harmful advice for a marriage partnership that I could imagine. Potential mates not even allowed to have private conversations before getting married! Potential mates not allowed (?!) to develop heart connections with each other until they were already committed to get married.
I fully anticipate that it won’t be long before we see a lot of books, web sites, etc. from those for whom courtship and betrothal went terribly wrong.
Link | February 6th, 2007 at 8:47 pm
Allison wrote,
“If you don’t mind answering (and if you do, I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND!!!!!), do you think that you and your parents would have been duped by him had you met him the “normal” (everyone, note the quotes, since I am NOT a fan of the typical “dating scene,” so that is not what I’m referring to) way? Or do you think it was easier to be misled by him due to the way your relationship with him came about?”
Well, our situation was far from “normal” in that we met online. That has many pros as well as many cons. For us, the greatest problem with it is that we were getting to know each other 1600 miles apart. We did not spend enough time together before getting married - he was in a rush to get us married, and now I know why. (One can only pretend for just so long before being exposed.) It was easy to be misled by him because I simply wasn’t in his physical presence often enough, for long enough periods of time, and because I was a very trusting person then. I still tend toward that, but I am far more reserved at this point. Anyway, I wanted to believe the best about him, so when “things” would come up that would cause me concern, he would have an explanation that seemed good enough to me - so I believed him.
He was very two-faced, though, and his behavior is what is called “crazy-making” in abuse circles. His way of saying one thing (”I love you and care about you”) and then saying another (”I know you’re allergic to cats, but we will use this couch anyway and SEE if you react”) created a great struggle in my mind. Looking at it now, I am shocked that I could have been so blind, and I know others must see it the same way. But again, it’s one of those indescribable things.
I guess I’ve kind of gotten off the courtship track in this, but it’s so hard to explain my situation without qualifying things. It’s hard, sometimes, knowing that some people will simply never understand why we could have been so duped. We were careful! I was always homeschooled, graduated college early, never “dated around”, always took marriage very, very seriously. And still this happened. There were things we could have done differently, but even that is no guarantee of protection. It is just so hard to really *know* a person.
All that said, I am remarried now, and my current husband and I met online also. He only lived 2 hours away, however, and lived in the very town where I was taking my children to visit their father every weekend. We “dated” and we loved it. I think that you can date a person without losing sight of the ultimate goal and keep your heart guarded. I was always careful of this, letting my intellect/reason reign over my heart/emotion. But emotion did come into play after some time, when I knew that he truly loved me and his actions consistently demonstrated it.
This has been way too long for a “comment” so I’ll stop here, but I’ll probably comment often. Avoiding the dangers/pitfalls/disasters of relationships is something very close to my heart. Thanks for bringing up the discussion, Keer.
Allison
Link | February 7th, 2007 at 6:08 am
Thank you so much Allison!!!!!
I have seen a trend lately among more “staunch” courtship circles that actually mirrors the way that you and Mr. Psychopath (LOL) got together. Online directories being set up, people getting to know each other long distance only (not knocking long-distance relationships - I had one too LOL, but it was only because he moved away to go to vet school
), etc. I’m not sure at what point the couple actually meets, but I have heard of situations where it’s after 6 months of this long-distance situation. So up until then everything they know about each other is through letters, phone calls, etc. Very easy to hide stuff.
Do I think that courtship CAUSES this type of situation? No way. We have countless examples today of dating relationships gone wrong wrong wrong in the same manner. But supposedly that is one of the things that courting is supposed to solve. And your situation is a perfect example in which it DIDN’T. (Since as I said, I know numerous people who are courting in the same manner in which you did.)
Thank you so much for sharing. I am still so thankful that God has sent you your new wonderful hubby (and baby!).
Link | February 7th, 2007 at 11:27 am
Joelle wrote,
My husband and I went the courtship route, and while God used it to bring us together, I no longer believe it is “the” way to get a mate, and I would not repeat the experience. And if it were not for God getting a hold on my husband in a big way, we would not be married today. Courtship turned out to be just a way for his dad to control his child, and after becoming engaged things began to be revealed about how awful my future father-in-law truly was. He has abused his children (he has
spiritually, mentally, physically, and perhaps sexually (though my husband is not sure - he’s just heard references from his sisters that make him wonder). My husband and I ended up eloping to get away from him, and jumped into a marriage that has quite hellish (to be quite frank). My husband started going down the same path of his dad, first with mental abuse and then physical. If God hadn’t intervened I don’t know where we’d be today. After a two separations we are back together, and while things aren’t “perfect”, they are improving. Oh yeah, before I forget, my parents were the ones who approached me with the idea of courting him. They later felt like they’d been deceived - by both my father-in-law, and my husband. I think they are glad that God is good at redeeming bad situations, and working things together for our good.
I guess where I am going with this is that you must find out God’s path for you ON YOUR OWN. I have always wanted someone else to just tell me what to do, and guess what: that’s not the way it is supposed to be! Godly counsel from our believing parents and other christians is very valuable and to be desired. However, to be even more desired is to seek God for yourself, and let HIM direct your path. My desire for our children (we have 1 son so far) is that they would grow up to have their own relationship with God, and to love Him and His word and to seek Him above man. From what I have read (and I admit I haven’t done an in-depth study) the scriptures don’t lay out a one-size-fits-all rule for finding a mate. There are guidelines for how to treat our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, and I think that is where we should start when seeking a spouse.
Link | February 7th, 2007 at 1:20 pm
Serena wrote,
I’m glad that Joelle weighed in here. I won’t have to say much, but that it is too easy to be deceived by others. I had originally recommended to my daughters that they should know someone for a long time (a year or more) before getting betrothed and marrying. I violated my own gut feelings about that in Joelle and her husband’s case. If I had it to do again, I would hang in there for knowing someone for a longer period of time. They were betrothed in six months from the first time they met and married in less than 9 months. They would have both benefited from knowing each other much longer. For one thing, the truth about his dad would have been revealed and Joelle could have sat back and evaluated if she wanted the relationship. I’m very encouraged at the progress that Philip is making in coming out of the abuse, but he did ignore our asking him to seek help right after their marriage. We knew if he didn’t that it would cause a real problem. The trouble is, we did not know the extent of the problem at that time and got caught up in the whole idea of rescuing him from the situation. I have to believe that G-d redeems our mistakes and turns them to good or it would have about shipwrecked me for a while.
Love and shalom,
Serena
Link | February 10th, 2007 at 10:15 pm
Rebecca wrote,
Hope your computer is fixed soon, because I’m looking forward to reading more!
Courtship can mean a lot of different things to different people. I’ve seen quite a few wonderful examples of courtship, where it was a tremendous blessing to the couples involved, their families, and all of us who got to witness two people trying their best to honor God in all they do. But I’ve also read some wacky courtship ideas, that seemed more about the father of the young woman trying to be some sort of control freak.
The truth of the matter is that God did not see fit to give us a manual detailing the best method to find and marry a mate. One of the things I like about the “courtship movement” is that it questioned the typical American dating practices, many of which do nothing to build healthy marriages. Courtship didn’t seem odd to me, since it went along with what extended family members did, as well as what friends from other cultures did. Some of them thought American dating was bizarre, impractical, and unhealthy.
My daughter has just started courting the son of friends of ours. What has started as a wonderful family friendship has just naturally progressed into something more. They are still hammering out the details together of how they will “do” courtship. We (the parents) are giving advice and the benefit of our own experiences, but we’re not attempting to run the show, make a bunch of rules, etc. What is wonderful to us is seeing how the two of them want to please and serve God, and how they want to be a good testimony to others.
Someone already commented about the importance of trusting God and not leaning on our own understanding. Proverbs 3:5-6 is one of my favorite passages. I’ve also appreciated what others are commenting about how there is no “one size fits all” approach. For example, I would never recommend that anyone do what my husband and I did — we married pretty much as strangers after four months of very little dating and a four month engagement. Although I often joke about “marry in haste; repent in leisure”, I believe that God guided and directed us.
There is no guarenteed way to get married without ever experiencing heartbreak and disappointment. I’m not sure that it is entirely healthy to try to avoid emotional pain. Love makes us vulnerable. Even if we marry the most wonderful person in the world, and arrive at the altar without ever having had the slightest twinge of romantic disappointment, we will be sure to face pain and sorrow in the years to come. Husbands are only human, as are we. Sin will cause turmoil, even if only fleeting. If nothing else, our protective instincts as wives will cause us to bear our husbands’ pains and burdens, and to grieve over our inability to shield the men we love from all harm. We may lose a child together. We may go through sickness together. We may be crushed by the circumstances of life. We may stand at our husbands’ graves and feel as if we have just buried most of ourselves, leaving only unspeakable pain behind to carry on alone. Courtship will not save us from that.
We will suffer. The most important thing, IMO, is to avoid suffering because of our own sin. If courtship is used as a sensible safeguard against tempting us beyond what we are able to endure, if it is used to maintain our reputations and the reputation of our Lord, if it is used to honor Him — that is a good and wonderful thing. But if we are just trying to avoid pain and sorrow, we are fooling ourselves.
Link | February 11th, 2007 at 9:05 pm
That was awesome, Rebecca!!!!
I’m not sure I even need to write a Part 2 after that!
Link | February 11th, 2007 at 9:17 pm
Zan wrote,
What a cool discussion!
I think the only thing parents should really stress into their kids is the importance of finding a godly spouse. My parents were OK with my husband, but then they changed their mind after we were engaged and started giving me doubts. They never told me NOT to marry him, but they greatly discouraged me from doing it. Well, I married him anyway and he is just the best! Conservative Christian circles over analyze scripture too much, in my opinion.
I met my husband online and he had never heard of people courting. I basically told him that it was dating with marriage in mind. He looked at me like, Duh! What else would I want to date someone if not for thinking of looking for a wife. My husband was a “normal” Christian and didn’t think dating for the fun of it was good at all, but he had never heard courting or betrothal. He just thought that, you see a Christian girl you might like. You get to know her through dating and go on from there. My husband was the first person I ever dated.
My parents have a great relationship with my husband and are very proud of him, just fyi. I know some Christians out there might think that my marriage is doomed (especially since my husband was divorced), but I hate to break it to them, it’s not.
The whole “guarding you heart thing is silly in my opinion.
Link | February 14th, 2007 at 1:52 pm
myderbe wrote,
I like that you’re discussing this, and I’m looking forward to part 2.
I do not personally know many people who have done a courtship model like those I’ve seen discussed in message boards and email digests. The one family I observed up-close and personal did not demonstrate a healthy situation. The father of the bride was VERY controlling before the courtship, during the courtship, and after the marriage. His controlling actions eventually ruined the marriage and the couple divorced. The young man was heartbroken. The daughter is so robotic and brainwashed at this point that it’s difficult to know how she felt.
I honestly believe that the true heart attitude behind the strict courtship model is control. The parents don’t trust their children; the parents don’t trust the Lord to lead their children; the parents want to control their adult children.
I also have some concerns about encouraging young women or men to make lists about what they want in a future husband or wife. Is marriage really all about what I want? Is that the message I want to give my children? If I had made a list and stuck to it, I would not have married my husband. He was not all that I wanted, but he is all God wanted for me. My husband is exactly who I need. Marriage is about give and take and learning and growing and understanding it’s not all about me. A good first step would be to not have a checklist and expect God to meet all our wants. Just my opinion about that.
I know a family that most super conservative homeschooling courting families wouldn’t want to associate with. I LOVE this family! They don’t look the part. The mom wears mini-skirts and tight tops and paints her fingernails blue sometimes. The daughters dress very trendy. The dad has wild curly red hair. The mom works outside the home — always has and the kids went to daycare. One daughter is 17 and a senior in high school. The son (who came to live with this family as a foster child at age 6 and was later adopted) is a sophomore and is 15. The other daughter is in 8th grade. All the kids go to public school. I don’t think they spanked their children. The dad teaches psychology and counseling at a secular university. They have a wonderful relationship with their children! The kids are super! They are mature for their age and steadfast in their beliefs.
All 3 of them have never been kissed and are v*rg*ns. The 17 year old daughter did go to the school homecoming dance last fall - her only date ever - with a friend, and he had to come over and do yardwork with the dad (and talk with him) before he was allowed to take her. They’ve discussed it (as they do everything) and decided together that the way all the other teenagers are dating just isn’t a good idea.
They definitely aren’t doing a super-conservative courtship thing or arranged marriage thing; but they aren’t doing dating the way most everyone else does. I really like the way it’s working out for them.
Link | February 14th, 2007 at 3:29 pm
myderbe wrote,
Oh, and I’m not convinced the way super-conservative Christians do courtship is THE biblical way to do things. Ruth proposed to Boaz and the Bible doesn’t say that was wrong.
Link | February 14th, 2007 at 5:05 pm
Zan wrote,
I just wanted to clarify that I don’t think that parents who want to protect their kids form broken hearts are silly, but parents who think if they do X, Y, and Z that then their kids will be immune to emotional pain. Like, someone mentioned above, there is alot of emotional pain “after” marriage.
I agree that the list thing is bizarre. I would NEVER have married my husband if I had followed a list. I, actually, think it is a little presumptuous to think you know better than God. Another thing, I have heard that you should wait for the best. The “best” doesn’t always come in the most obvious packages. I think that some girls and boys might be ignoring some really good potential spouses because of their unrealistic high standards.
When I met my husband online (Christian match-up site) I went to check out the girls. I wanted to see what my compitition was.
I saw this one girl who had such strict requirements. He had to be reformed, have all communication between them be under the direct observation of her father, and be a virgin. So, all men who had strayed in their youth or came to know God later in life were not qualified. The funny thing is that when I met my husband (after we were married) we ran into this girl at a church. I had known her from my childhood. My husband remembered her from the online service and said he had thought of contacting her, because she lived in the same state and was pretty. However, after he read her profile he thought that he didn’t have a chance in the world. That girl missed out big time. Where is the forgiveness in these people who stress purity, so much? In their eyes, I guess there is no forgiveness for sexual sin.
That girl is still single, just fyi.
Link | February 15th, 2007 at 8:09 am
Dana wrote,
Yeah! I found you again. I’m probably about where you were a few years ago and haven’t read a whole lot. My hubby tends to be more into this stuff than I am which I hope resolves itself before we get there. I don’t want those kinds of conflicts. Anyway, my overall impression is that some people latch on to some of this stuff too heavily. Too much of a formula: Christian = courtship = happily ever after. If we really want to go back to what they did in OT times, I think that perhaps we would have to go to arranged marriages, wouldn’t we?
I think the main principle that needs to be somehow conveyed to the child is that the purpose of “dating” or courtship or whatever is not just playing around. It is about looking for a potential spouse. If you aren’t ready for that, perhaps you aren’t ready for that kind of relationship.
Link | March 8th, 2007 at 10:06 am
Dana wrote,
btw, I think perhaps it might be a little like homeschooling. A lot of people take it as a guarantee that if you homeschool, your children will grow up to be good Christians and successful in every aspect of their lives. Homeschooling can be wonderful, but there are no guarantees. And there are lots of children who come to Christ even in the public school (like me).
The bible tells us some things about how to raise children and develop relationships, but it isn’t so clear that we can exclude some things over others. But sometimes when we see our views validated by certain verses, we can get a bit compulsive about it and forget some of the more important things.
Link | March 8th, 2007 at 10:13 am
LOL Dana, my dh is the opposite. Some of the ideas I’ve heard and started to agree with, when I bring them up with him, he looks at me like I have two or more heads.
Yup…people are looking for a formula. A guarantee. But it’s just not there.
Interesting you should mention the OT…the book that I linked to discusses OT marriage practices and arranged marriages. I found it quite interesting!
Link | March 8th, 2007 at 10:18 am
Cynthia wrote,
Hi Kirsten (Kirstin…? oh it’s been so long since I’ve checked in, I can’t remember how you spell your name)
Thank you for this fabulous discussion and the great comments made by several other fine writers here. This topic is just so relevant for me right now with a 17 year old daughter who would love nothing more than to be married and have some children. I wasn’t like that, at all, and the more I can read about actual dating or courting experiences, the more I feel able to relate to her and to share with her in the struggles she’s having right now.
I hope you are well dear. It looks like you’ve had a rough month.
I’ll be praying for you.
Cynthia
Jackson Wyoming
Link | March 8th, 2007 at 11:41 am
Cynthia!!!!! So good to hear from you! I’ve missed you! I think of you every Sunday when I dab on my perfume.
Link | March 8th, 2007 at 1:31 pm
Cynthia wrote,
HA!!
That a girl!
xxooxo
Link | March 9th, 2007 at 8:21 am
TulipGirl wrote,
Read your post, but not all of the comments. . . But I think one line of what you wrote summarized everything succintly: ” And yet, since they courted rather than dated, it shouldn’t have turned out this way.”
So many people have the expectation of how things “should” and “shouldn’t” turn out when courting. . . and that almost automatically sets people up for failure.
I think there are strengths and insights that have been brought into the relationship dialogue due to the courtship model, but I also know broken people, relationships, marriages–who were putting their trust in doing the “right” thing (ie, courting) instead of putting their trust in God.
Link | March 12th, 2007 at 9:40 pm
EXACTAMUNDO, TG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Link | March 12th, 2007 at 9:42 pm