Theological snobbery?
I've been pondering something lately. When I mentioned it to my dh this morning, he thought I was nuts. So I thought I'd throw it out to y'all. Am I nuts? (ON THIS LOL...I already know what some of y'all will say in response to that question! 
)
The other day I caught a little bit of a radio interview. This guy wrote an article about how smaller churches are dwindling, and he wondered if it had anything to do with the rise of the mega-church - easier to get lost in the crowd, not as much accountability, etc. Anyway, he started thinking about this in an experience he had at a church in his neighborhood, that he and his wife drove past every time they went to their church, which was about 15 min. away.
He pointed that out in the interview as well - the church he drove PAST to get to their church. He said there were about 10 different churches that they drove past in just that 15 min. Historically there has been about 1 church in one area of a community (or 1 in a community period!), and you just went to that church. But now people go outside of their community to go to church (for whatever reason), and there is somewhat of a disconnect formed because of it.
His comments started me to thinking about this very thing, because that is what dh and I do. Our church is a solid 30-minute drive from our house. There are several churches (like 5 or so) that I know of in our little community right here where we live. I got to thinking about WHY this occurs. I know that often, for us, it is because the churches we've visited around us haven't quite been on the same page we are theologically. (We definitely HAD this same experience where we lived in Arkansas - we had to go to a different town completely to find what we considered a "decent" church.) Why is that, and why do we feel this way? For me personally, I've learned a lot because of the internet - I read articles, etc. But then when it comes time to find a church in my community, stuff I didn't really care about before (secondary issues) seems larger, and those churches aren't really "good enough" anymore. So I feel the need to look further, at churches that aren't in my local community.
Biblical teaching and sound doctrine is vital, of course! But at the same time we have traded sound doctrine and teaching for a true experience with the Body of Christ. Since we do live so far from our church, it is extremely difficult to get involved, so typically we don't. People at our church don't come by, or it's a hassle for them to come by, because we live so far out of the way. And the church is more that just going and listening to good preaching and being taught good doctrine. It is being a PART of the Body. And when there is a physical distance separating you from the Body of Christ, it's hard.
Which is where I think this theological snobbery comes in (if that's even what is going on). All of this information is good, but I think it has caused me to long for that "perfect church" (which I know doesn't exist) and to keep looking farther and farther from home for it. Meanwhile there is a perfectly good church that I drive by all the time.
Now, I'm not saying I want to leave my church. (I think that's what dh thought I might be saying LOL.) These are just some ponderings I have been having, as I look at our situation, hear others speak of their similar situations, and read different articles about similar things.
What about you - have you noticed these things to be the case, not necessarily with you personally, but in other people you've seen? Or am I just making this all up? LOL.
Evers wrote,
I see a lot of wisdom in your post. It’s absolutely true that those of us who are more convinced of the necessity of sound doctrine are more likely to look for a church with strong teaching. But it doesn’t necessarily hold that to look for a church with that necessarily means sacrificing “body life” — esp. if you make the latter a priority.
That being said, if you’re driving 30 minutes to meet on Sundays — and you have few other saints w/in 10 minute proximity with which to develop community on a regular basis — then I’d argue you might want to either:
1) look again for a church of like doctrine nearby
2) convince your church to start a plant near you so others of like mind don’t have to travel so far.
In other words, if the church you attend is worth the trip, it’s also worth considering replicating.
Link | January 1st, 2006 at 4:11 pm
razorbackmama wrote,
“But it doesn’t necessarily hold that to look for a church with that necessarily means sacrificing “body life” — esp. if you make the latter a priority.”
So true, and sorry I made it sound like it had to be an either/or situation. What the guy in the interview said just really stuck out to me - him driving past like 10 churches on his way to church. But in the past there was *A* church for a community and really no way to get to another community to go to a different church. That, of course, held its own set of problems - what if the church in your community wasn’t teaching the Truth, etc.?
Thanks for those suggestions…LOL my church actually did plant a church several years back nearer to here (it’s only 15-20 min. away). We visited there a couple times, and while the teaching was sound, there were a lot of things I was uncomfortable with, namely all of the SKIN showing. Casual I’m fine with, ladies in pants I’m fine with…but spaghetti strapped tank tops and SHORT basketball shorts on several different girls….eh this wasn’t the church for me LOL!
Not sure if we’ll be switching churches really…we do like our church a lot, and I don’t think dh wants to go anywhere else, but it was just sort of an “observation” I had.
Link | January 1st, 2006 at 4:22 pm
LisaQuing wrote,
Kirsten, we choose our churches based partly on location. We desire to attend a church that is no more than 15 minutes drive from our home. The 3 churches that we have been part of in our 18 years of married life have all been within that distance. Our current church is less than 1 mile from our house and takes about 3 minutes to drive to. We place a high priority on being within the community our church is located in. Not saying that’s the only way to do it, but we found it to be important for us and definitely for our kids, since we homeschool.
Link | January 1st, 2006 at 7:26 pm
razorbackmama wrote,
Lisa, have you found that you’ve had to compromise somewhat on things that you’d prefer in a church? *NOT* the essentials of the faith or even major differences in doctrine, but simply things that you’d prefer or that are a bit “off?” For example, one of the churches we visited in our little community, the Sunday we visited we were in a mixed Sunday School class that was being taught by a woman who was a relatively new believer (and didn’t really know much yet). I wasn’t comfortable with that at ALL, but I wonder if that is where some of my theological “snobbery” has come into play? (Although the church itself was very uncomfortable physically - I would have felt sick quite a bit due to the summer heat, no A/C, and late pregnancy!)
I’d love to hear more of your perspective on this! What if you were to move to a place that really didn’t have any good churches within that 15 min.? That was our scenario in Arkansas.
But I wonder if we should have just continued to look and look and look???
Link | January 1st, 2006 at 7:36 pm
Bonnie wrote,
Hi Keer,
You’ve raised a really important issue — no, you’re not making it up! I’m glad you’ve raised it. Part of the problem is the existence of myriads of denominations and non-denominations, and one must consider those sorts of loyalties. I also think that contemporary evangelicals have emphasized teaching (doctrine) to the neglect of emphasis on corporate worship itself and the receiving of sacraments (in whatever form), as well as on the importance of community, or the church “family.”
I have come to appreciate, especially via the blogosphere, that there is far too much importance placed on “non-essentials” of doctrine among believers to the great detriment of unity of the Body. I’ve also realized the value of commitment to a body of believers — for better or worse! In such a commitment, the focus shifts from “correctness” to true ministry and Christ-like love.
Happy New Year!
Link | January 1st, 2006 at 7:52 pm
DollyMama wrote,
Those are some interesting ideas.
For us, we actually went to two different churches within a mile either way of our house. One was run by a controlling and manipulating pastor who did not want to encourage relationships outside of church so much so that he would not publish a church directory. That plus overwhelming legalism sent us packing.
The second church is a quarter-mile from our house. This was another church with a strong emphasis on being at every service, but there were not small groups and very few other opportunities for relationship building. After a year there we felt that the only hope of us ever getting truly connected were if we were either willing to burn ourselves out working at the church like the other people do, or try to systematically invite families over for dinner. Surprise! They are all too busy for socializing because they work at church all the time!
We ended up settling on a church that is a half hour from our home, and is a church plant from a church we attended when we lived in a different town. So, we already knew most of the people involved to begin with. This church has a strong emphasis on relationships, and is very minimal on programs. We have Sunday morning church, and small groups. our small groups are closed groups (meaning you can’t just stop by somebody’s group) and each group makes a commitment to stick together for a period of time. My group consists of 4 couples and we are staying together for 18 months, meeting weekly. Our goal is to develop relationships and encourage each other in life and in our spiritual lives.
it is a sacrifice to attend the small group. there have even been times this year when we almost didn’t attend because of gas prices and our financial situation. But, our desire to continue to be in relationship with our church family has kept us going.
We would not be able to go to 3 services a week plus drive the kids to extra things, so this church style works well for us.
So, for us, we did try to find a church in our community, but found that there was little “community” to be had. if all we cared about was being able to say we attended church, then I guess we could walk around the corner. I don’t know of any church other than the one we go to that offers the relationships and the minimal rush-rush-rush as ours does, so it seems like the perfect fit, and worth the drive.
Our church is new, so it is not ready to replicate, but I do have my eye on the future possibility that we might be able to one day help bring a church like this one to our own area.
In the mean time I do other things to try to be involved with this community and to minister where we can. In another 5 years or so I’m going to have a small army of qualified helper kids in my family to do all sorts of stuff that could be good for a new church!
Link | January 1st, 2006 at 9:08 pm
Amanda wrote,
Keer,
You are definitely not nuts:-) (well, on this point anyway LOL) We have experienced this same thing, both in our own family, and in other people.
The church that we are going to right now is less than a mile from our house, and it is really a wonderful experience going to church in our community. It is wonderful to be able to invite the entire church (it’s a plant, so that would be about 35 people LOL) back to our house after service, and it’s not out of the way for anyone b/c it’s only 3 minutes away! We live in a fairly large city (I think - there’s about 300,000, and it’s a university town too) Tons and tons of churches of all “flavahs”. Plus, we live nearly downtown, so we are within a mile of at least 6 or 7 different churches, all different types. So for us, it definitely was not a problem *finding* a church close by to go to. And although there are a few that I would not even try, b/c I KNOW that I would have some doctrinal issues with them, for the most part, they are God-loving, Bible-teaching churches.
And when we moved here last year, we still drove nearly 20 minutes to go to church - why? Well, we were comfortable. Even though it was harder and harder to be involved at all in a church 20 minutes away, and even though most of the folks we were attending church with lived wayyyy on the other side of town - we had been there several years, and we liked it. We didn’t want to have to “look” for a new church.
Aaah, but God had other plans for us. And I’m so glad. YES, there are things about our new church that I don’t just love. It is completely different from anything I’ve ever experienced before, as far as church goes. But I’m finding that as long as the soundness of Biblical teaching is there, that the sweetness of community is well worth the trade off.
Link | January 2nd, 2006 at 8:20 am
vgarr wrote,
Off the top of my head, I’d say it is not theological snobbery to not attend a church in your neighborhood/town.
I would definitely sacrifice a drive for good solid, sound biblical teaching.
Now if you think you are *too good* for the church on the corner, I think that is a problem, but that didn’t come across in your post.
In our church, we have a few families that drive 45-60 minutes to attend. If someone has a baby, they are signing up to bring a meal, weekly Bible study/small groups, they are there, any church function, they are there. People drive from my town to theirs to do the same thing for them. Why? Because we’re family.
Snobbery says, “I’m so glad you come to MY church, but don’t you dare ask me to do anything for you or with you because you live to far away.”
Talk about snobbish! When people are not willing to minister to others because of where they live in relation to a church BUILDING, that to me is snobbery.
Link | January 2nd, 2006 at 8:59 am
razorbackmama wrote,
DM,
You touched on something else I’ve experienced - a lack of Biblical teaching AND a lack of a healthy church body in a church local to us. *big sigh* We’ve BTDT too, and that was another reason we had to drive miles and miles when we lived in Arkansas.
VA,
I guess when I say “snobbery” I’m talking more about focusing on the minors. If a church isn’t teaching Biblical truth or if we have serious problems with core doctrines, no we won’t even bother with it. But because of the age of information that we live in, where it’s easy to be taught spiritually in other places besides church, I wonder if we are elevating these “non-essentials” so much that we are refusing to attend churches local to us because they might do something different than what we’d prefer. Yet in a time before we were introduced to all this information overload, we would have been fine attending one of those churches.
For example, contemporary praise & worship music vs. traditional hymns? How many times have I seen/heard of people not attend a church because of this ONE thing?
Whether a church has small groups or not? Whether they have a nursery or not? Whether the pastor’s preaches topically or in an expository manner?
These are all things that I personally didn’t have an opinion on at all until I read different things on the internet and in other places (but mostly the internet). And I wonder if all that information has somewhat colored my opinions against perfectly fine (and most likely Biblically solid) churches that are much more local to me?
That’s what I mean by “snobbery” - not the attitudes of the members themselves. I experienced much of that in my local (took 2 min. to drive there, and we could have walked it if we wanted to) church in Arkansas.
Link | January 2nd, 2006 at 4:07 pm
LisaQuing wrote,
Lisa, have you found that you’ve had to compromise somewhat on things that you’d prefer in a church?
****The worship at the church we currently attend is not as lively as I might prefer. I have had to revise my expectations of the Wednesday night program somewhat too. We haven’t had to compromise on any essentials nor any non-essential beliefs either. We haven’t become members of this church though. We’ve attended there nearly 3 years now. ****
I’d love to hear more of your perspective on this! What if you were to move to a place that really didn’t have any good churches within that 15 min.?
****Maybe I am less demanding on what I consider a “good church”. I don’t have any requirements like “KJV only”
or “no contemporary music”. At the church we currently attend, the Word is being preached - in manner that makes it ALIVE. True worship happens there. Prayer is encouraged and relied upon. The children are encouraged to have true relationships with God and also to learn to serve each other. The people show that they truly care about others - in the church and in the community.
I think there would be other churches within a 15 minute radius that would meet our needs. We’ve already attended 3 in that range. We’ve left 2 of those churches for various reasons, but my observation is that there are many many churches near me that are TRUE churches.
Does this help at all? This is a subject I could talk about for a long time.
Link | January 2nd, 2006 at 7:00 pm
razorbackmama wrote,
Yes, it does help! And I think you gave some good examples: worship style, translation preference, etc.
For example, I’m NOT KJV only, and I actually prefer churches that are not as well. So what if I were to avoid a church that is local to me simply because it was KJV-only, even though everything else about that church was fine to me? And then I travelled 30 min. to go to church at one that I’m less involved in because the distance was such a factor? That’s exactly what I’m talking about!
I think a lot depends on where we live too…we live in what is technically called a subdivision, even though it’s over twice as large as my former town LOL! But there are about 2-3 churches here in this subdivision. Within about 15 min. I’d say there are about 5ish more. And then there is the big city we live near (which has about 200K people), so there are LOTS of churches (the majority of the closest ones being 20-30 min. away since that’s how far out of town we live). So I guess unless we went to a church just RIGHT here in our subdivision, we’d be driving at least 20 min. anyway.
Or LOL my in-laws - they live about 20 min. outside of where we used to live, so they drive 20 min. to ANYTHING! But I guess that’s different than driving past about 10 churches to go to one a distance away.
Link | January 2nd, 2006 at 10:03 pm
DollyMama wrote,
You know, Kirstin, I think that today because there are so many different churches, with different “options” available, it is no longer acceptable to a lot of people to go to a church that is “good enough.” I don’t know that I would call it snobbery so much as just wanting a place where you really fit, rather than a place where you can attend and have it be simply ok.
Is it bad to want to be someplace where you really click?
When we went to one local church it was KJV only, hymns-only, dresses only, and a lot of other things that we are not. We were willing to give up our preferences on all of that and more in order to try to be with a local place. And it stunk because they were so hung up on how great they were for being like this. We couldn’t imagine bringing people there. Eventually we left.
My husband’s parents feel that a local church should be selected and attended if it is “good enough” but if I am going to drag myself and 6 kids out of the house solo every third Sunday, it has to be someplace that I really want to be. So, for us, driving someplace where we fit is worth it. (and even there, the music isn’t all we wish it was, etc. but it’s still worth it to us because of the focus on building real relationships)
Link | January 3rd, 2006 at 10:32 am
blessedmama wrote,
oh my goodness keer i SO know what you’re talking about. we are going through that too. i will have to let dh read this. it might help us to choose the church we’re visiting right now, rather than keep looking for that perfect place beyond the horizon.
as for a speaker, we have found the perfect speaker, and he’s in north carolina. LOL. who knows what the church body is like there. we left a church family with an incredible body, but not a good pastor. sigh. makes you wonder if there is such a place that can ever be right near you, have the perfect pastor, have the perfect music, and the perfect fellowship, all in ONE PLACE. sigh again.
thanks keer. i don’t know why i don’t come by more often. probably because you make me think too much!
love ya!
Link | January 3rd, 2006 at 9:28 pm
Carla wrote,
Thanks for sharing, Keer. I don’t have trackback, but I wanted to let you know that I referenced your post in my blog:
http://disenfranchisedhousewife.blogspot.com/2006/01/church-and-community.html
Link | January 3rd, 2006 at 9:47 pm
Jamie wrote,
Thanks for posting this! Some great thoughts! I think there are different reasons people look farther than the church around the corner, and sometimes the reasons are “snobbish” and other times Biblical. Anyway, you’ve given me some food for thought - thanks!!
Jamie
http://livingthe127thpsalm.lifewithchrist.org
Link | January 4th, 2006 at 7:49 am
DollyMama wrote,
You know, Kirstin, I was thinking some more about this. With some people, they like to harp on just going to a good enough church nearby, by I wonder if they aren’t just feeling superior because they found a church that they *liked* that was nearby, and then decided to get on a hobby horse about it. KWIM?
Link | January 4th, 2006 at 5:30 pm
Hind's Feet wrote,
I have seen it too. We’re in a small, local church because we felt led to build up koinonia in our own community. It wasn’t a church we fell in love with, it wasn’t a church that sang the kind of music we like, it wasn’t a church that we even feel *fed* in (no small accountability groups like small groups/bible studies/adult sunday school), but it was a church we felt the Lord leading us to join… we’re helping to build up the church, start accountability groups, and meet those needs in the community. It has been sorely tempting several times to leave for greener pastures (bigger, more contemporary churches with lots to offer “socially” in other towns)… but we can see the Lord’s hand and know this church will someday bear much fruit… if we all stick to it!
Link | January 11th, 2006 at 12:54 pm
Beth wrote,
Keer~
I so appreciate this post, and all of these comments following. What you’ve shared here is so important, and you’ve enunciated some thoughts I’ve been mulling over for awhile now. Chris and I have been thinking along these lines for the last year, since we’ve relocated here to TN.
Concerning choosing a Church home, we’d prayed and asked the Lord to lead us to where He wanted us to plug in by word of mouth, through people we’d meet… We knew that we didn’t want to do the church hop routine, and have found that truly it takes more than a couple of visits to get to *know* a church anyways.
Within a couple of months of our being here, the Lord did lead us to a group of believers (we were invited by another homeschool Dad upon our first meeting him at a homeschool function), and it’s so evident to us that He’s planted us where we are supposed to be. Sure, there are actually *quite* a few things we’re at odds with, as far as the way they *do* things (esp. the youth group, and some peripheral personal preferences), but the Lord has shown us over the years that it’s about RELATIONSHIP!
We are much more conservative than many there, and with our church’s being a non-denominational congregation, we’ve had some very interesting discussions at homegroup meetings. But so long as the doctrine being preached/taught, and upheld is Biblically sound, and the spirit there is HIS, we are to stay. We know that most of the people we’ve met there, and come to love, within our congregation now, do sincerely love the Lord and are seeking hard after Him… and that is what it’s about, sharing this journey, encouraging and watching out for one another…
We couldn’t leave now unless the Lord told us to very specifically… because we’ve become friends with our family in Him here. We couldn’t turn our backs on these people, and that is how we know that we are to stay right where we are (yes, we’ve wrestled with this issue, and some specifics the past few months).
We’ve found that our role has changed significantly, as we’re realizing that we’re not there to “get fed” necessarily, well, not primarily anyways. We’re there for others, and I’m finding that the Lord is feeding me richly off of this new found realization and appreciation of fellowship embraced. It’s not about us anymore, it’s about others…
Link | January 22nd, 2006 at 5:43 pm
Julana wrote,
Good question, Keer. I ask it myself. I would really like to go to church with my neighbors, so we can have meaningful relationships. But we’re driving across the city,at this time.–>
Link | January 23rd, 2006 at 12:11 am